As the Global Director of Digital Marketing & Strategy at Qualcomm, Jessica Jensen leads strategy for the company’s impressive portfolio of digital marketing channels.
In this interview with John Lincoln, she breaks down what drives her, how she came to be a Global Director, her philosophies on social media marketing and how she measures success.
Listen to the Podcast:
Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or Google Podcasts.
John Lincoln: Okay everybody, welcome to Ignite visibility University. Today I have Jessica Jensen who i,s the Global Director of Marketing at Qualcomm. We’re really excited to have her here today.
Jessica has 18 years of experience driving business growth through digitally lead integrated marketing campaigns. What’s really exciting is she’s worked inside of four Fortune 500 companies – Nestle, Adidas, Microsoft – managing multimillion-dollar marketing budgets. So I want to talk about that a little bit today want to get to know kind of what goes into these big programs and just hear more about it in general.
So Jessica. Welcome to the Ignite visibility University podcast. How you doing today?
Jessica Jensen: I’m great. Thank you so much for having me.
John Lincoln: Yeah, really, really excited to have you here, just an amazing background. I was wondering if you could start and just tell us a little bit about your current role and what you’re up to today.
Jessica Jensen: Sure. As you mentioned, I’m the Global Director of Marketing, specifically at Qualcomm I’m responsible for digital marketing. So digital, obviously, is becoming more and more pervasive over the last decade, but the way we think about it here is around the different digital channels. So things like social media, or website, or podcast, or search. So various ways in which we consume digital content and marketing messages. That portfolio sits within my team and I look after those aspects of digital as well as just the integration of all of those pieces together and how they help they folks move, ideally, from kind of top of the funnel or entry point of awareness, or on Qualcomm further down into sort of understanding education, favorability and then eventually some sort of purchase intent.
John Lincoln: That sounds like a complicated task to me, thinking about it from the channel level dropping down into each individual business segment and KPIs around every initiative.
How do you manage that book? What goes into all that planning to make that happen? Is it a long, tedious process? What does that workflow look like?
Jessica Jensen: Well, one of the things I’ve done for a few years now, and I brought this practice from my days at Microsoft, is we develop an annual playbook.
So a digital marketing playbook that would encompass both best practices and latest trends on those different aspects I just mentioned. Because we know that certainly every 12 months if not even faster, things are changing rapidly within the digital landscape. So part of the job, honestly, it’s just staying up to date which is hard to do, especially when you have a day job of actually managing and collaborating with others on the campaigns and programs that are currently in play. And then educating within the organization, whether that’s with my peers, my team or even up to our executives on some of the changes and really the evolution of digital. So that playbook really helps codify how we’re thinking about those channels and how they work together to ideally move folks through the funnel, as far as we can get them to.
Now, Qualcomm been very much a B2B brand, and I often struggle a bit with the terminology of B2B vs. B2C because I fundamentally think we’re all people, and even if it’s B2B, you’re talking to a human that has feelings and emotions and drivers beyond just numbers. So I struggle a bit with that terminology, but I’ll use that since it’s so well known. You know Qualcomm isn’t always in a position where we’re actually selling something to a consumer. In most cases, we’re not, so that funnel can get a little more complex toward the back half of it because we can’t always attribute marketing activities to purchase directly.
But anyway, the playbook kind of helps to organize that thinking. We also talked about atomization. So that’s the idea of creating a core piece of content, say, that’s a three minute video, and then really atomising are splitting it into lots of different pieces so that it’s customized and relevant to all the different places that digital shows up. So that’s one way that we help kind of get ourselves in order for the year before all the campaign and program work kicks off for the lines of business.
John Lincoln: That’s really interesting. Yes, thanks for going through that with us. So Ignite visibility University, you heard it from the global, you know, head of marketing at Qualcomm that’s how they do it. They’ve got basically everything broken down and everybody’s on the same page, and that’s how they go about doing it. Really interesting stuff.
So I wanted to switch gears a little bit. When I look at your resume, you’ve got the MBA. You’ve worked at Nestle, Adidas, Microsoft, now Qualcomm. What did that evolution look like to you and your career, how did you get to where you are today? Just walk us through your career history. I know our listeners would love to hear about that.
Jessica Jensen: Sure, happy to.
So my undergraduate degree is from a small liberal arts college, Cumberland fields in Oregon, which is where I’m from – Portland – and that was a degree in psychology. I initially thought I wanted to be a counselor. I actually spent a year in grad school in a Masters of Counseling program and did a number of internships and job shadowing and research and realized that probably wasn’t the right route for me. A very important career for sure, but just not quite the right fit. And and so actually the last semester of my undergraduate I took a social psychology class, and that had always sort of piqued my interest because it was the first time I really explored or began to explore advertising and the notion of the psychology and the human behavioral element of marketing. And so that kind of stuck with me. And so, even after that time I spent researching a counseling route, I ended up returning to the world of marketing, advertising, PR.
I worked for about five years for some small boutique agencies in Portland, which was a great first chapter, frankly. I was in my early 20s, and I learned just a lot of the fundamental things that you need to learn when you’re first entering the business world. How to present to a client, how to write a creative brief, have project management, a lot of those things that really carry into lots of different jobs.
But as I got to be closer to our clients, I recognized that I kind of wanted to be on the other side of the table. The agency side was fun and creative and a very young, progressive atmosphere, but I was really interested in a bit more of the business, and I wanted to do more than just the communications aspect of the business. And so I felt like an MBA would be really good next step.
I always wanted to get my master’s degree. It was kind of a personal goal, but I also felt like having an undergrad in more of a liberal arts background and an MBA would give me some of that business acumen I might have not had at Linfield, just due to my my coursework. So accounting, finance,, an investment strategy, a lot of those things. So I did that. I went full-time, got my MBA at Pepperdine in Southern California and that last semester or so of my MBA I did a lot of informational interviews. I did a couple of internships, one of which was at 20 Century Fox, and for a while explored marketing in the entertainment industry. I did another one for a consulting company, explored that. But I really just talked to a lot of people who were working in marketing, and again and again, what I heard was you need to get CPG experience, Consumer Packaged Goods. Procter and Gamble effectively invented the term brand management and that’s where you’re really going to get the experience and the knowledge that will help you with the rest of your career, and open doors and give you further grounding in brand marketing.
So I set my sights on the CPG, which is not an easy task in Southern California, or frankly, anywhere on the West Coast, because most of them are based in the Midwest in the northeast. But Nestle was headquartered in Glendale, a suburb of LA, and my friend had a friend of a friend of a friend, which I will say that is probably a pattern in my career. As much as networking is dirty word for a lot of people, and I know that feeling, relationships are so paramount. I mean, of course, you have to have some fundamental skill set there. But having a connection was really helpful in many of my position. so
So I entered Nestle a third degree connection and was able to get my foot in the door, which again was a rarity because frankly, Nestle recruits only from a handful of MBA programs. Pepperdine wasn’t one, unfortunately, so I was an anomaly. And you know, that first job out of business school, was definitely rigorous. It was a challenge, especially coming from the agency side, which again was more focused on, call it the, the fourth P, if you will, the four Ps of marketing. The promotions P. That was really where my experience was.
At Nestle, that was obviously a piece of my job, but really it was kind of like being a general manager or even a mini CEO of your particular business. So I managed a profit and loss statement, a P&L, I had to deal with supply chain, I had to go to Walmart and Target and actually sell things to the buyers. So there’s a lot of aspects that I had never really touched before that I had to learn in that job. It was really, really good training, and again really stretched my brain and made me have to think in a much more analytical way than I had in the past, which was really a nice kind rounding out of the creative background I’d had on the agency side.
John Lincoln: Thanks so much for walking us through that. That’s really interesting. I actually was a literature major, and then I got out of school and I realized that I really needed some more business skills, so I went and got my MBA. That was really, really helpful for me.
Ignite Visibility listeners, I encourage everybody to get business experience in marketing, and financial experience, and P&L cash flow. Understanding all those things is really, really important. That’s interesting that you worked with Fox. I worked with them for quite a few years and they were really, really fun to work with.
One of the things that I noticed that I thought was kind of interesting is you’ve got all this great business acumen, and have that amazing experience where it’s almost like you’re managing a business unit, which is just amazing experience. But it looks like you got pretty involved in social media marketing. Is that kind of what became your main expertise over the last couple years?
Jessica Jensen: Yeah, digital definitely became more and more at the forefront. Some of this was just lucky timing, so when I left Nestle I went to Adidas, which was my first job where I was working full time in digital marketing. It was a small aspect of my job at Nestle, we had an e-newsletter program, but again that was in 2007.
So imagine: 2007 is the year that the first iPhone came out, it’s the year that Facebook effectively opened itself up beyond .edu addresses, so regular people outside of college students and then businesses later had access to Facebook. So ’07 was just a chapter where social media and digital was beginning to really explode, and so the timing was just nice that I could enter that job at Adidas as a digital marketing manager with a little bit of experience on the digital side. But I was able to kind of learn and figure it out as we went. I mean I launched our first Adidas Facebook page and it was literally me and an intern experimenting because that was the way back then. You didn’t have to be an expert. At that point you could just sort of play and sort of make mistakes and not a lot of people were watching just yet. That was kind of serendipitous honestly.
Social media was a piece of it for sure. Paid digital media became a big piece of it. I learned a lot about paid media, specifically digital paid media on the job. Then mobile marketing, which again, this is back when smartphone penetration was like 10% to 15% of the US, most people still had flip phones, so mobile marketing was pretty rudimentary. But all of those things. I got to do the web, obviously, website and ecommerce was really coming up at that point as well, so that was really the first job I had where that was my full time responsibility and then from there at Microsoft, it became even more focused, which was running social media for Windows, and even though that’s relatively specialized, everything at Microsoft is big. So especially Windows which was kind of the mothership at that point in 2010. So, I mean, there are 56 subsidiaries within Microsoft. There are offices in 56 countries that have marketing efforts, teams, budgets. So you can imagine just even the wrangling and organizing and collaborating with all of those different teams on just social media was a huge endeavor. And that was what I took away from Microsoft. Besides just getting to work alongside really, really smart people, and also entering the tech industry. That was obviously my entry into the tech world.
But the other thing that I got out of that was it was my first big leap into working internationally, and I had some exposure to that at Adidas because Adidas is a German-based company. They’re headquartered in Hurzogenaurach in southern Germany. So there was European influence, but it was a little bit more on the product side and less so on the marketing side. Microsoft as a US based company is so gigantic and has just huge, huge efforts across the world. That was really where I had to learn a lot about navigating different cultures, different communication styles, different time zones and just even how marketing, especially the content piece of social media, is digested and used differently in different cultures.
John Lincoln: That’s really interesting. I was actually speaking to somebody at Microsoft last week about their gaming division and this is just so interesting to me about these bigger companies. And Ignite Visibility listeners, you know what goes into this process because imagine that you have a really, really big business and you have 56 different divisions. At that point, you’ve got to determine what you’re going to invest the most in and the least in, and then you need to structure a digital program around each individual one in order to hit the goals of the business. And there’s just so much that goes into it.
So Jessica, one of the things that I’m really, really interested in and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about was influencer marketing. One of the cool things that you’ve done, I believe, is you launched one of the first influencer marketing campaigns at Qualcomm, and in addition to that you’re really championing leadership at the company to get more involved in social media, almost becoming influencers on their own. Could you talk to us just a little bit about that and what goes into something like that?
Jessica Jensen: Yeah happy to. So the inspiration I always attribute back to a guy that I worked with named John Wexler at Adidas. So this is, again, back in 2007 2008, and he was the first person that I knew who really began to talk about influencer marketing, and you can imagine Adidas especially on the lifestyle side which is where I worked, the Originalsbrand lends itself very, very nicely to influencer marketing. So this is, you know, the Originals trefoil, kind off the court off the pitch, that stuff that you’d see, you know, Run DMC wear back in the 80s, Gwen Stefani in the 90s, it lends itself very easily to hip hop culture street culture. And so we were just seeding products, we were just sending stuff to people, hoping they would wear it on the red carpet or at Lollapalooza or wherever they might show up. And, you know, taking clippings of them out of US Weekly. So it was again relationship building and product seeding, pretty early-stage stuff, but he was bullish on this and I kind of watched. I was the digital person, not the influencer person, but we sat in the same team and I sort of watched him develop this program to be today what it is, which is a full blown entertainment influencer marketing effort with partners like Kanye West. So, you know, big kudos to Wex.
And so I think that always kind of stayed in the back of my brain, and then fast forward to Qualcomm, I realized that, hey, there’s an opportunity here. It’s 10 years later, influencer marketing has kind of had a resurgence, and it’s partly due to things like Instagram, YouTube, the social properties that have become very mature and very sophisticated and there are these entrepreneurs, where this is their full time job. They’re not celebrities necessarily like they once were, who just happened to also be influential, they’re actually creating a company around their expertise.
Obviously, the vertical that we cared most about here is technology, specifically, mobile technology and then that expands quickly into things like Smart Homes, smart devices, wearables, the Internet of Things, 5G, all those topics that really spawned from mobile tech. So I just started to watch. I started to pay attention to who was talking about things on Reddit, on Twitter, YouTube, I started to follow them and began to build some relationships. And then we got on the phone and I began to kind of build rapport and talk to them and learn about their business and their drivers, and what was interesting to them and how they worked with brands.
And so it was very organic. It was just something that I recognized where we perhaps had a gap. We had obviously a very sophisticated Public Relations team who is doing great work with all of the traditional journalists, as well as analysts in the tech space on my side of the house. Social media was was present and active, but this sort of hybrid, this kind of social media influencer who again wasn’t a celebrity, wasn’t a journalist working for the Wall Street Journal, they were independent and they were creating visually-led content, video-based content, Instagram-based content, talking about Snapdragon i many cases which is our hero brand here, so I thought there’s there’s something there. And so it really just grew into hey, let’s invite them to some events that we have and get them familiar with what we do as a company.
Many of them knew us for Snapdragon, but that’s all. They didn’t know all the other places that Qualcomm played. They didn’t know our long history in R&D, for example. And so, kind of just getting them to be part of our family, if you will, and just familiarize and educate and then we began to actually partner and commission certain types of content where they had an interest and we had an interest. There was a mutually beneficial win, win. And it kind of grew from there.
John Lincoln: I love that. So I’m thinking about influencer campaigns. One of the main things I kind of hear is: what’s the return? How are you proving the return? You’ve been super business minded with the MBA and all that. I know you think that way and you have to report that way to executives. Before I go on a tangent about like things you could do, I just wonder when you did do it. How did you kind of prove value and what tips would you have for listeners.
Jessica Jensen: Yeah, so this gets into the notion of attribution modeling, which frankly we don’t do enough of that here. And I think a lot of companies struggle with it. You know, it’s very common and it’s very logical when there’s a big initiative, whether it’s a product launch or an event or whatever is important to your company, that you’re going to come out with a full 360 campaign, right, you’re going to have maybe some traditional media if that’s part of your budget, whether it’s print broadcast at home, whatever. Probably a lot of different forms of digital media like we talked about, whether that’s search, social influencer marketing, all kinds of options there.
And so then how do you actually attribute the dollars you’re spending across all those different verticals back to sales, right? Back to revenue growth. It’s hard. It’s very hard and, especially, it’s hard when it comes to brands like ours that are B2B, because again, you can’t go buy a box from Qualcomm on the shelf at Target. We sell to what’s called OEM. So basically the device manufacturers. The Samsung’s, the Apples, and even beyond that we get in other spaces like VR and we have other partners like automotive. So we sell to the manufacturers of the brands that you would recognize: Audi Oculus, etc. And then obviously they sell to the consumer. So there’s a layer in between us and the end user, which makes the attribution model even more difficult.
So to be honest I’m not able to take the work that we do with, say, an influencer and go, okay, you know that X number of thousands of dollars we spent here gave us this number of sales. It’s not that clean cut. But I think that it’s more of a portfolio approach. It’s like, okay, we have our own properties. And there’s a lot of good things that we can do there. We have, again, sort of the journalist space, analyst space, which is a little bit we can influence what they do, but ultimately they’re their own people. And then we kind of have this influencer again, who’s kind of in the middle, kind of a hybrid. And so we know there’s an opportunity there. We know that there’s a ton of credibility that comes from these people and specifically the ones that we work with who I would categorize as micro influencers, meaning they focus on a certain vertical, again, for us that’s mobile technology. It’s a lot different than the broad spanning, more of lifestyle entertainment influencers where they’re not as deep on a certain category. I think there might be a bit more skepticism, frankly, from audiences about how credible some of their messages are.
But I feel like the micro influencers is different. There’s a lot of credibility, there’s a lot of trust. Their audience is their business, and so they care a lot about having integrity. And so I think we just know that that’s something that needs to be part of the mix, but we certainly haven’t gotten to the specificity of did this video drive x sales.
John Lincoln: And I don’t think that you need to get to that level. I wrote a book. It’s called Digital Influencer about influencer marketing and I have another one coming out called The Forecaster Method, which is all about tracking and attribution modeling and stuff like that. But when I think about influencer marketing, I think a lot about just brand equity. So aligning yourself with a brand. KPIs can be around their reach and the audience that they have and impressions. It doesn’t necessarily need to be like audience size, click through rate, conversion rate, cost per conversion, revenue per conversion in that case. At least that’s kind of how I feel about it. I feel like with any marketing budget, there should be some allocation for performance-based marketing and then some allocation for brand building. Not that Qualcomm necessarily needs to build a brand on a micro influencer level, but a macro level and just just aligning yourself with tech enthusiasts. That is definitely something that I personally feel always needs to remain part of any marketing mix. I feel like you feel the same way on some level, is that correct?
Jessica Jensen: Yeah, I think you said it really well and it goes back to this discussion we had earlier about the marketing funnel. And again, we all know now the marketing funnel is not linear, like we once used to describe it. But there is still a funnel. It just might mean that people are in and out kind of at different stages.
So the way that you described it, I think, is spot on. There’s the top of the funnel and there’s the middle of the funnel, there’s the bottom of the funnel. And the top of the funnel is that awareness, favorability, just generating interest in a brand or product. And I think that’s largely where the influencers play. I think there are definitely other digital channels and approaches that are more appropriate for more bottom of the funnel, more conversions and so in most cases, I don’t worry too much about having to connect the influencer down to that bottom funnel metric, because I think that’s just not the best role for them to play.
John Lincoln: Yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, you could have an affiliate tracking code on there and all that. But at some point, certain things need to bet just value. Brand equity.
Ignite visibility listeners, Jessica just said something that’s really, really interesting. People are coming in and out of the funnel right now which is a huge, huge change in marketing. I was at traffic and conversion summit and that was one of the main themes. So before it was kind of top to bottom. Now people are jumping in and out. And in some cases, they’re even jumping into podcasts, and that’s kind of a tangent into one of the other things I wanted to talk to Jessica about.
So we’re on a podcast now and I know people are going to absolutely love this. It’s the fastest growing medium right now and Jessica is a bit of a podcast expert. Actually think that I saw Jay Baer might have been on your podcast? That’s somebody that I know, really, really well. I’m just interested, tell me about your journey into podcasting. When did you start, what are you doing now and what’s that looking like nowadays?
Jessica Jensen: Thanks for asking about that. I am a huge podcast listener and that’s kind of how it started. I began listening to podcasts a couple years ago and it’s always funny to ask people, so when do you listen to podcasts and everyone has a different story: on my commute, or, for me, it’s when I’m getting ready in the morning, because I don’t acutally have a very long commute. So that doesn’t really help. But I spend, you know, half an hour in the bathroom, getting ready and so I might as well have something on the counter that I can learn from or laugh at, or be entertained by.
So podcasting as just a listener came a couple of years ago, kind of as this way to pass time and then also just to learn. I feel like there’s so much that you can learn now, whether it’s in the financial space, or investment strategy, real estate. There’s obviously kind of motivational, more personal development, there’s, health and wellness, there’s parenting, and there’s so many categories where you could just absorb this great information, and frankly, I would never have the time to read all those articles or take those classes. So I was definitely a listener first.
And then Qualcomm – and not and not to my credit, it happened before it was part of my team -Qualcomm launched a podcast a couple of years ago as well. I believe it was April of ’17. We’ve launched almost 40 episodes where we’ve interviewed various product managers and engineering leadership here in the company, to really talk about how our products are built, and what our point of view is, and some of these launches that we care about. And that actually is something that I’m so proud of our larger team for having the foresight to do that because there aren’t a lot of companies that have podcasts yet. And as you mentioned earlier, the executive or the leader aspect of social media podcasting falls into that same category where I feel like the humanization and the softening of a brand is so vital, and I think having executives active on social media is one way to build that trust. Podcasting, I think, is another way because it is literally what we’re experiencing right now. It’s someone’s voice in your head and you almost can’t get much more personal than that. And people are listening on average for 25-30 minutes, which is a really long time for and for any marketing metric that attention is is paramount. And that’s a huge amount of time , so that got me interested in sort of, okay, what should I be doing? Should I be trying to experiment with this medium on my own to see if I I can do it? What does it mean to build a podcast editorial calendar? What does it mean to find the right guests and craft an interesting interview? And so my old friend from business school from Pepperdine, he had very similar feelings and kind of suggested, why don’t we try this? Let’s co host. He’s good with the production and editing side. I’m a good writer and editor. And so it was kind of a nice marriage of skill set. So we thought, let’s do it and see how long we can go and what happens, and who we meet along the way.
Jay Baer was one of the people that we did meet and I was fortunate to get to be a guest on his podcast Social Pros. So we’re up to about 35 episodes or so after about a year of doing it, and it’s fun. It’s just good to kind of push yourself once in a while.
John Lincoln: So, what is what’s the name of the one that you’re hosting just so everybody knows, and they can check it out.
Jessica Jensen: Yeah, thank you for asking. My personal podcast that I do is called Social Currency and you can find it on all the podcasting platforms that you would normally listen on.
John Lincoln: Awesome.
One other thing I’m really interested in. I find that people who are successful in business long term, they spend a lot of time on personal development and you just breeze over that a little bit, but I’ve personally done that a lot, just trying to become a better person. And I just wonder, in your position and with the podcast, what you’re listening to and stuff like that. Is that something that you focus on a bit?
Jessica Jensen: Yeah, for sure. I think the term is Kaizen, this notion of constant improvement. I feel like it never ends. There’s always more that I’m curious about. There’s always more that I want to learn about, I’d listen to TED talks all day if I could. I’m fascinated by just acquiring new knowledge and maybe things that are even beyond my day to day marketing world, but then often will come back in and in mysterious ways, sort of influence my thinking in a way I don’t expect. So yeah, I love podcasting as a medium to learn new things.
John Lincoln: Absolutely. And everybody listening to this, I just think that’s so important, this personal development. This kind of thirst for knowledge, this growth. If you look at all the things that we talked about today, Jessica has been very deliberate aboutwhere she wanted to go and making things happen. And I just think that’s such a good lesson for everybody out there who wants to aspire to do things in life. And I just wanted to call that out.
So sast question I had for you today. What are you most excited about in your life right now? With Qualcomm and outside. What’s exciting going on for you and where can people find out more about you?
Jessica Jensen: Yeah. You know, one of the things that we’re just embarking on from a Qualcomm perspective is this next generation of connectivity, and really mobile technology which we reference as 5G. And I’m sure everyone’s been hearing a lot about 5G, but probably unsure what that really means to me personally. And it’s still very, very early days. It’s just beginning to deploy. This year Qualcomm is really at the center of 5G. We really are at the core of creating and inventing and launching that technology into the world, and it’s hard to kind of go back in time, almost a decade when we saw 4g and then even a decade before that 3G, but you know, you think about the things that exist today because of 4G, the fourth generation of mobile technology. Airbnb, Uber and Lyft, podcasting is a great example of the ability to have the bandwidth to be able to quickly stream or download content that before would have taken 20 minutes.
So I’m excited to see what 5G is going to bring. I think we have no idea. I feel like for most folks, it’s a belief that it just means that my phone works faster. And obviously, latency going away and faster speeds is one aspect of 5G, that’s great. I think there’s going to be a lot of really cool stuff in the tech industry over the next five or six years that comes out of the 5G platform that we just can’t imagine. So I’m excited to be in the tech industry. I love this industry. I love the space. And I also love that there are so many cool technologies companies and cultural changes that are actually being spawned out of mobile and what’s capable from mobile technology. So that’s cool. But that’s fun to be in that space.
John Lincoln: Awesome, really exciting stuff. I truly believe that this is the most exciting time to be alive in technology. Jessica has the amazing opportunity to be at the center of it. Over a decade ago, I was able to meet the CEO of Qualcomm. I’ve seen that company just evolve and become what it is today and the future is bright. Jessica.
This was an amazing interview. Thank you so much for taking the time. I know our listeners are really going to appreciate it. Have a great day and we’ll talk to you soon. Thanks so much for being on.
Jessica Jensen: Thank you.